Letters to the Editors
Send a letter to the editors

Subject: Pre-Owned Certified Car Fraud
From: Tiffany

I read your article on "Confessions of a Salesman" and thought you might enjoy my story. I had an experience with purchasing a car that I want to convey to other consumers. My car had a hang tag in the window specifying that it was "VW Pre-Owned Certified" and I assumed that it was inspected, seeing as it had this certification. After five months owning the car, including several trips to the dealership I bought it at, I became frustrated. I took it to another VW service shop; they deemed the car a fire hazard. When I confronted the dealer about the pre-owned, certified tags hanging in cars they told me that they hang them in all of the windows — that it just means they could be certified. In my opinion, this is fraud and false advertising. Nowhere on the tag does it say "maybe" this car is Pre-Owned Certified. I have not seen any coverage on this and I think it would be to the consumer's benefit to know this prior to purchasing a car.

Subject: Sports Car Shoot-Out
From: Neville

I have to take issue with some comments regarding the recent 2003 sports car shoot-out. I purchased an RX-8 several months ago, and sold it back to Mazda. After that I purchased a 350Z. I've had both for a similar amount of time, and both were similarly equipped (RX-8 with all options and a Touring 350Z 6-speed).

I believe your review was inherently biased by the fact that you have had the Z for an extended period of time. I'll explain why: You criticize the Z's interior for being filled with plastic. Last time I checked, the RX-8's interior was the same, except less tastefully styled. My RX-8 also had more rattles despite its soft, sedanlike suspension. You also complained about tire noise on a Z with 15,000 miles. Fifteen thousand is about the expected lifespan of the Potenzas that are standard on that car, and those tires are known for becoming louder with age.

Now, as for the motors of the two cars. You actually complained that the Z motor has no character, yet stated you enjoyed the exhaust sound. What gives? I've read dozens of your reviews where you criticize cars for having no low end, for having turbo lag, etc. It would seem to me the Z's seamless power throughout its entire rev range would be desirable. As for the RX-8, did you drive it in traffic? The car has no torque. I can only liken it to an S2000, whose motor is fun only on a racetrack where it can be kept on full boil. To me, a torque-less engine is a tremendous drawback in drivability. Why drop $30K on a sports car that can barely pass a pickup from a traffic light?

Last point: a sports car is designed around two principles: all-out performance and how it makes you feel. I believe the Z to be superior on both fronts. You complained about the Z's suspension being stiff. Please go drive a BMW 3 Series with the sports package and you will find it almost as stiff riding as the Z (I have owned two). Don't even get me started on a 911 with sports suspension or an M3. Then go drive a Z06. Write me back after your dentures are fitted. :-)

Sports cars are about performance. The RX-8 is cool, but no darn sports car. It's a sporty sedan. The Z is closer to the true sports car mantra.

But like every comparison between cars, it all depends on where your priorities fall. If you want a better all-out performance car, then a 350Z Track model will outgun the RX-8. But if you want a fully functional car with sports carlike styling, handling and personality, the RX-8 has the advantage. As we've said before, it's not all about the numbers generated at the track (unless the only place you drive is at a track, which is rare for most consumers). The ability to combine fun and function in one vehicle is why we liked the RX-8 so much. Also, we just replaced the tires on our 350Z long-term car…and they are still too noisy. — Ed.

Subject: Family Sedan Comparison
From: Steve

I am rather worried by the ratings you gave for exterior design for the contestants in the 2003-2004 Family Sedan Comparison Test. These ratings disturb me as they suggest that a considerable number of your editors are long overdue a visit to the eye doctor.

How you rate the Accord as a tie in fourth place is beyond me. To me, it looks like something a stray dog would leave on the sidewalk. At least the Verona, Malibu and the Sonata have the merit of total anonymity. I even rate the Galant higher than the Accord, despite, or maybe because of, its quirky looks. Even the Camry and Sebring look better proportioned and more handsome.

No, I have to say it out loud, the latest Accord is just plain ugly. I mean what I say; it combines both plain and ugly in a way seldom seen in the auto world.

I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but please check that your glasses/contacts have an up-to-date prescription before driving again. I'm really worried that if you don't, you might need all those airbags you always want.

There's no denying the fact that if vehicle styling is your only concern, the Accord probably isn't for you. Though if vehicle styling is your only concern, I'm not sure why you're reading Edmunds.com. Just watch the TV commercials and pick the car that looks the best to you. Don't let details like performance, comfort, utility, reliability or value get in the way. — Ed.

Subject: Family Sedan Comparo
From: Doug

Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed your family sedan comparison. And as the owner of a 2003 Accord EX V6, I certainly won't argue with your conclusions.

I just wanted to point out one thing. In your Top 12 Features list, the grocery net for the Accord is listed as N/A. Honda does offer this option as a dealer-installed accessory…I have one in my Accord. Do you exclude dealer-installed accessories from this list?

Aside from that minor detail, the comparison is top-notch…the level of detail on each car is impressive.

Thanks for the feedback. You called it correctly, we don't include dealer options in our "Top 12 Features" lists because they vary so widely and are hard to validate. — Ed.

Subject: A Dealer's Point of View
From: Anonymous

Just a thought.

If customers started at holdback who would pay dealer floor plan, salaries, heat and air, upkeep to building and electricity? These are a portion of a dealer's expenses.

There is no industry that makes the cost of a product so available to the customer.
Imagine asking a salesman what is the price of a TV or washer.
Imagine asking a salesman the actual price of the pair of pants or suit.
Imagine asking the owner of a furniture store or a jewelry store what is his actual cost of his product.

By revealing to the consumer these prices all you are doing is raising the buy price of this product. Think about that for a while.

You have left a lot of important expenses out and just made it harder for the consumer to get a bargain.

That must be why we are getting flooded with so many "success stories" from our readers every day. By the way, the industry doesn't make the cost of cars and trucks "so available to the customer." The invoice prices can actually be rather difficult to acquire. But Edmunds.com successfully ferrets out the information and uses it to empower the consumer. — Ed.

Subject: 2004 Ford F-150 Road Test
From: Kevin

Your evaluation of the F-150 was about what I expected from Edmunds. Your comments about the new Triton 5.4 were very surprising, and downright negative. As automotive journalists, you owe your readers a more well-informed view when you provide reviews. The world today is not just about how fast a truck can accelerate when not pulling a load. Might I suggest that a more honest and complete evaluation might go something like this:

The new Ford Triton 5.4 V8 is state of the art. Noted for its design from inception in the mid-'90s, it is rated at higher mpg than the smaller, and far less capable Toyota Tundra, and puts out only a fraction of the emissions of a GM Vortec or Dodge Hemi. Ford engineers decided not to get into a horsepower war with GM and Dodge, and opted for an engine design that produces more "low-end" torque, rather than "off the line" performance. The 3-valve SOHC Triton produces 85 percent of its massive 370 ft-lb of torque in just 1,000 rpm. The trade-off, of course, is that you will not feel the hard launch we are accustomed to from Chevy and Dodge pushrod V8s from the dark ages. You will however, be able to get heavy loads moving from a dead stop with much greater ease. Our test-drive with an empty bed through SoCal did not offer any driving conditions that fell into the sweet spot of the Triton. We are aware that many truck buyers are using them for far more than inching through traffic on Interstate 405. If your intent is to race from traffic light to traffic light with the redneck guy in the Dodge Hemi commercials, then this is not your truck. But, if you are crawling up the rocks in Moab, pulling a trailer over the Rockies or need to plow all that heavy snow in the Sierra Nevada, you will absolutely love it!

What exactly makes the new F-150 so advanced? Is it the three valves per cylinder (Toyota, Dodge and Nissan offer four)? Is it the lack of hemispherical combustion (Dodge has it and it works quite well)? Is it the lack of four-wheel steering (Chevrolet)? Is it the lack of side airbags, either standard or optional (both the Dodge and Nissan offer them)? Is it the lack of rear doors in the extended cab that open nearly 180 degrees (Nissan)? And how does a truck with so much torque available at just 1,000 rpm manage to, in your words, not deliver a "hard launch" off the line? Maybe it's the 700 pounds the F-150 put on this year. I think we'll stick with our original road test text. — Ed.

Subject: Ford F-150 Review
From: Mike

Liked the article, but I am not sure the F-150 tailgate is especially light. However, it does have a torsion rod located at its base to provide extra closing torque. This is most likely why it felt light. When do we get to read a direct comparison of the Titan and F-150? I'm waiting before buying on this issue.

You're correct about the torsion rod used to lower the effort required when closing the tailgate. We plan to do a direct shoot-out soon, and we're also getting a Titan long-term truck to go up against our F-150 long-termer for a year's worth of drive/hauling duty. — Ed.

Subject: F-150 Stereo Review
From: Rob

In Brian Moody's review of the F-150 stereo, it is not indicated if the stereo being reviewed is the standard system or the upgraded Audiophile system. Please add a distinction to the article. If the review was for the standard system, it will make my choice to upgrade when I order mine more clear.

The stereo we reviewed was not the Audiophile system. — Ed.

Subject: Missing Vehicle
From: Kevin

A car that should be on your Most Wanted list for 2004 is the new Toyota Prius. It gets 60 mpg and has interior room like a Camry. Also a second-generation hybrid system, Toyota quality and Motor Trend's Car of the Year. It definitely needs to be on your list.

It didn't win a Most Wanted award because it competes in the "Sedan Under $25,000" category, the largest vehicle segment out there. It goes up against everything from the Accord to the Passat to the Mazda 6 (all past winners of this category). That said, we do like the Prius and have even added one to our long-term test fleet. — Ed.

Subject: 10 Steps to Buying Auto Insurance
From: Ben

I read your article on how to buy auto insurance. I believe that your advice is basically sound, but I would recommend that an 11th step be added between step #3 and step #4.

I would recommend that before people solicit competitive quotes they should first drive up to a hand full of auto body repair shops and ask these shop owners which insurance companies are a pain in the butt to get them to pay for adequate repairs. Most of these shop owners will be more than happy to talk about the one or two insurance companies that routinely pay a settlement amount that does not even begin to pay for the parts alone.

There are two such insurance companies in my local market. I found out the hard way. I will always employ this technique when I need to shop for full coverage auto insurance.

It may not be the most scientific method of identifying good (or bad) insurance companies, but it's not a bad idea. Thanks for the advice. — Ed.

Subject: Sport Wagon Comparison
From: Mike

I'd like to suggest a comparison test of wagons: I was thinking of (whichever of the following are available) Audi S4, BMW 540 (is it disappearing for 2004?), Mercedes E500 4Matic, Subaru WRX wagon, VW Passat W8 and Volvo V70R (manuals when possible!!!). I can't be the only person who both likes a quick car and needs to carry around a lot of stuff. There's probably about a factor of two in price in that list, but those are pretty much all of the sporty wagons that I can think about.

We'll call it the "Family 'Haulers' Comparison Test." There is no 5 Series wagon for 2004 (it will be back for 2005) and you've definitely crossed price points with the WRX in there. However, we know wagons are making a comeback, and we appreciate the concept of sporty functionality without resorting to the tired SUV recipe. Look for a test of sporty wagons in the coming months. — Ed.

Subject: VW Phaeton
From: Anonymous

Just read your review of the VW Phaeton. Very helpful but after then seeing the car I think you left out a couple of important items. First, like the current luxury cars from Audi, Jaguar and BMW, at least some components of the Phaeton body are aluminum. While this may be desirable from a weight saving viewpoint it seems to me car manufacturers who go down this road are setting their customers up for very expensive repair bills in the future. Perhaps Edmunds has commented on this trend before, but it would be interesting to see a comparison of repair costs for aluminum versus steel bodies.

Second, despite the use of aluminum, the V8 Phaeton weighs 4,400 pounds and incurs a $1,200 gas guzzler tax! I imagine the V12 is even heavier and consumes more fuel.

So VW, starting from scratch with "state-of-the-art" design and manufacturing facilities, has created an aluminum bodied but overweight gas guzzler with a ludicrously tiny trunk for a car of this size. Meanwhile, Lexus offers comparable luxury, performance and space (including a much larger trunk), with proven reliability, lower weight and much better fuel consumption. This from a design that has been around for several years and uses conventional steel body panels. And the quality of Lexus comes at a significantly lower cost.

Add VW's mediocre quality image and it's difficult to see how the overweight and overpriced Phaeton can succeed.

Figures — the month's most insightful letter and it's signed "anonymous." — Ed.

Subject: Car-Buying Question
From: David

I don't know if you answer questions on e-mails, but since I haven't been able to find an answer anywhere else, here it is.

What does a customer do when he/she negotiates the price of a used car near the TMV price and then is hit with extra fees that I don't know if they are legitimate?

Triple-digit document fees/handling fees/processing fees/preparation fees/delivery fees

If a dealer can charge anything they want, it makes negotiating toward the TMV price useless. So what are the fees that are fair to pay and what should their values be? I've heard of document fees going from $35 to $399.

Also, if I have a trade-in, do I negotiate both the trade-in and car at the same time or separate? Is it realistic to think I can negotiate, and get close to TMV on a trade-in and the used car? By the way, my used car is 9 years old and has 150K miles on it. ('94 Geo Prizm)

Some dealers tell you they will give you a great deal on a used car intending to make their profit on fees that remain hidden until you are presented with the contract. In some cases, document fees, or "doc fees," are set by the state. In other states they are unregulated and sometimes inflated. So, what's a shopper to do? The magic question that reveals hidden fees is "what is my out-the-door price?" If you know the price of the car, and the out-the-door-price, the difference is the fees. Before agreeing to any sale price — either new and used — unearth the hidden fees so you will know if you are getting a good deal. As you point out, a dealer can charge anything they want — but it's up to you to decide if you are going to pay it or not. When I last checked there were quite a few car dealers in most cities, and many of them are ethical. Find the good ones and deal with them. Then you don't have to worry about hidden fees biting you at the last moment. — Ed.

Subject: Weights
From: Shu

What are the definitions of "curb weight" and "gross weight"?

Curb weight is the weight of a vehicle with all equipment and all vital fluids, plus a full tank of gas. Gross weight is the maximum weight a vehicle can carry, including its curb weight. For instance, if a truck has a curb weight of 5,000 pounds, and it has a "gross vehicle weight rating" of 8,000 pounds, then it can carry 3,000 pounds of cargo. — Ed.

Subject: Selling Our Car
From: Pamela

I was just reading your article on "How to Sell Your Car". Between my husband and me, I have traded a car and he has sold a car before. This car that we are trying to sell now has the flaw that he is still making payments. The price that is owed is $5,700. It is a '97 Jetta that runs and drives but it needs inner bearing transmission work. My question is, how should the ad be worded in order to address that we do not have possession of the title? (I can handle the rest of it.) We are hoping that we get a buyer who perhaps has his own shop or has the resources to fix the car. Because of the negative equity when we attempted to sell the car to a dealer it was suggested that we sell the car on our own. Any help you may provide would be greatly appreciated.

This is going to be a tough sell. Not only does the car need work, but you don't have the title. The title problem isn't insurmountable nor is the transmission problem. But when there are two problems a buyer may balk. Still, a bargain shopper might still be interested. You should get an accurate estimate of the work and adjust your asking price accordingly. In your ad you might want to just say, "Needs work." The fact that you are selling a car that isn't paid off shouldn't be mentioned in the ad (too complicated). However, reveal this condition early in the process so the buyer can plan accordingly. — Ed.

Subject: Lease Advice
From: Ross

I need some advice. I have a 2000 Toyota Solara with 80K miles on it (I used it for work). The lease is up March 2004. I want to buy a new car, but I don't know what to do about the Solara. There's no way I'm paying for the extra mileage…it's like $6,000. I might as well buy the car. It runs well and is in good shape. Will dealerships take this car if I want to buy a new one, should I just turn it in or keep it as a second car? I can still negotiate a buyout price for the Solara even though the residual value is $11,000 on the lease. I found out that the retail value of the car with that many miles is more like $9 or $10,000. The trade-in cost for the car with 80K miles on it is $6,000. Any advice what to do?

In some cases the leasing institution will contact you to try to sell you the car. If so, you can probably negotiate to buy the Solara at a very good price. But in other cases, they will hold the line and try to make you pay the residual price stated in the contract. Another option is to offer to lease another Toyota if they waive the penalty on the additional miles. But be careful in this situation and make sure they have rolled extra expense into the new contract. Use our calculators to check their figures. — Ed.

Subject: Lease Buyout Beware
From: Neil

I was just wondering if you had a resolution to contacting the California State Board of Equalization and applying for a refund for the double taxes you paid on the Nissan Xterra lease buyout in the article found here.

I'm going through a similar situation with Lexus Financial Services currently, and may be incurring double taxes. I'm also in California, so I would definitely be interested in learning what happened with your situation.

Thanks for any words of advice.

Unfortunately Mark Twain was right when he said that only death and taxes are certain. Our request was denied and we wound up paying double taxes. We still feel we had a strong case and we disagree with the state's decision. We suspect it reached its conclusion because it didn't want to make a refund. If you have success, let us know. And good luck. — Ed.

Subject: Lease Buyout
From: John

I have a 2000 Corvette I am leasing and thinking very seriously about buying when the lease is up. My question is, when I look at the TMV, should I use the Trade in, Private Party or Dealer Retail when I negotiate my deal with the lease company? Thanks!

Use Trade-In as a starting point for negotiations, which is basically the same amount as the wholesale value of your car. The amounts are similar because if you turned in your 'Vette the leasing company would likely sell the car to a wholesaler. Start with Trade-In and work your way up, but stay below private party TMV. — Ed.

Subject: Diesel Automobiles
From: Thomas

I was interested in your article about diesel automobiles and their possibilities for sale in the U.S. I have diesel Mercedes and am waiting for M-B to bring its new diesel generation to America.

Do you have anything to add to your March 2003 article? I'd be interested to hear from you.

Mercedes will have an E320 diesel sedan on sale this year, but it won't be available in states with stricter emissions standards (like California). Volkswagen will introduce a diesel version of the Passat and Touareg this year as well. Jeep is also bringing out a diesel version of the Liberty. — Ed.

Subject: Hybrid Odyssey Info
From: David

I found an article where Mr. Brauer is quoted as saying:

"Brauer [from Edmunds.com] said consumers looking for a family-size vehicle can expect Honda to ship an Odyssey hybrid minivan in 2004."

I tried to find some more information on a Hybrid Odyssey but couldn't find anything. Calling the local Honda dealership gives the usual "we know nothing about that" response.

Was the quote correct and, if so, can you provide any more details on the specs for a Hybrid Odyssey? Would it be anything like the Hybrid Toyota Estima being sold in Japan?

That quote should have been "…expect Honda to show an Odyssey hybrid minivan in 2004." Basically, with the growing interest in hybrid technology Karl feels it's likely Honda will at least show a concept version of a hybrid minivan in the next year, though when it's available for public consumption is anyone's guess. However, Toyota will be introducing a Hybrid Highlander in the next year, and Lexus will do the same with the RX 330 (it will be called the RX 400h). You can bet that with Toyota offering so many hybrid vehicles Honda won't be far behind (as the company has already shown with the Insight and Civic hybrid). — Ed.

Subject: Continental GT Article
From: Jake

I am an avid fan of your Web site and appreciate your accurate and informative views on the automotive world. However, I was reading your article about the new Bentley Continental GT by Karl Brauer and noticed two errors. First, in the ninth paragraph, Continental is misspelled as "Continual." Not a big deal, but inaccurate nonetheless.

Second and more importantly, Mr. Brauer states the following: "Like all German products, the Continental GT doesn't have an in-dash CD changer…." I am the owner of a 2004 Audi A4 3.0 with a six disc, in-dash CD changer. This is the German Audi, by the way. The same German Audi that makes the Bentley Continental GT.

It doesn't bother me that his statement excludes the entire A4 lineup, but it does bother me that a site that prides itself on accuracy would allow someone to make a blanket statement such as this. I recognize that BMW, Porsche, Mercedes and others have been rather recalcitrant about inclusion of in-dash changers, or often CD players, but saying "all German products," you are just setting yourself up for uppity people like me to point this inaccuracy out to you.

That comment was indeed made with the full knowledge that some German cars do offer in-dash CD changers. Karl feels that, overall, the German automotive industry has been lagging in providing in-dash CD changers, and he was trying to make a point with that broad statement. Sort of like if he said, "The Germans are lame because they continue to offer $100,000-plus cars with CD-based navigation systems while a $27,000 Toyota Camry has a DVD-based system." — Ed.